Considerable Sounds: Analog Vs. Digital Circuitry - Which Is Better For Music? »
Posted by: Radiofreeeuropa 9 months, 2 weeks ago102 CommentsReflectReport this Story
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who read binary and those who don't. The encoding of sound into digits changed the experience music forever. Proponents of analog sound have much in common with the Spartan's suicidal last stand. In the digital age the inevitable demise of analog technology is certain. Or is it?
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 2 weeks ago
The illustration depicting the difference between an analog sound wave and a discreet (digital) one is very telling. Although digital recordings can, by use of very high sample rates come closer to duplicating the natural sound and shape of a natural sound wave, it will always have a degree of "etch a sketch" like stair stepping. It's the nature of the beast. Digital sound has the convenience of being easily integrated into computers and is inexpensive by comparison. But actually the bottom line is analog sound is sonically superior. Does this surprise anyone here?
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doppich9 months, 2 weeks ago
Of course it's no surprise, but whether it makes a auditory difference depends on the age of one's ears.
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nccneon9 months, 2 weeks ago
The illustration is for a digital waveform is extremely deceptive. The duration of 0.015 seconds has about 15 samples. This is a sampling rate of 1 KHz. Also, it seems to have a value range of 5 to -5 ... if the recording was pure voice only, it would likely be unintelligible. In comparison, a CD has a range of 32767 to -32768 with a sampling rate of 44.1 KHz. This sample rate was chosen because it covers human hearing range X2, the range is required for EACH channel. Assuming the best available master and reproduction equipment, a 17 year old theoretically couldn't tell the original sound from the recording. Most 17 year olds can't afford $50,000 stereo systems anyway, haha
I'm aware vinyl LPs are still produced for audiophiles. I even own one to digitize my old vinyl. And, high end equipment, even mics, are often tube powered. I've spent as much as two months meticulously de-clicking rare vinyl. We didn't used to notice the clicks, but today ... well, you know.
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 2 weeks ago
All true, and the stairstepping is relative to the sample rate . But it's always there. The illustration shows a rather low sample rate to demonstrate the difference. I don't think it's deceptive in terms of communicating the idea. As sample rates increase the distances between discreet samples decrease but always will maintain those stairsteps.
I agree digital's upside is that it does not decay, no pops or hiss but I think higher sampling rates will interest serious listeners. An LP does indeed wear right from the first play. And magnetic tape decays over time. However I definitely could hear a difference in the upper harmonic partials when mastering to a DAT deck compared to a CD master and the difference in sampling rates is fairly small.
44.1 vs. 48kHz.
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nccneon9 months, 2 weeks ago
(cont)
CDs aren't the ultimate in digital audio, as most people know. On the other hand, most people couldn't tell the difference between a CD and say an SACD. In all likelyhood, they'd find a greater difference by spending more bucks on better speakers, and amps. I don't know if people still go by it or not, but 'they' used to say to spend 50% of your system's budget on speakers. For old guys like me though, $2000 is probably overkill :-(
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searchbeam9 months, 2 weeks ago
Radio,
This is a wonderful story, and it was about time somebody wrote it!
Being a Physicist and a music lover, I have seen with special interest the evolution of preserving music from vinyl to wire recording to tape to cassette to 8-track to CD to DAT and MP3.
Each progressive step has added something and also subtracted something from the true nirvana of live music. The something added was portability, convenience and the comfort of size. This progression is similar to our food habits changing from home-cooked meals to sit-down restaurants to fast food outlets!
My basic issue is with the conversion of a continuous sound wave into what you call etch-a-sketch or steps. It is entirely possible to use mathematics to give a hand in this conversion, by the process of integration. That is presumably what these new high end systems would be doing.
When you convert a continuous waveform into a digital waveform, the details get chopped off at the corners.
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searchbeam9 months, 2 weeks ago
Contd..
We know the details are there somewhere! Imagine for a moment that you had a pencil in your hand and you drew the missing portion. How did you do that? Because you knew how the wave is supposed to be. That is what integration can do!
There is one more and perhaps extremely important issue that I have not heard anyone talk about.
That is the issue of dimension. If you close your eyes and listen to live music WITHOUT microphone, amp and speakers, you will feel the presence of Three-Dimensional sound waves reaching your ears and giving you the thrill of hearing something pure and unfiltered. I would compare that to fresh-squeezing an orange and drinking the juice. Nothing that you can buy off a grocery store shelf would ever come close to it.
More..
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deathray9 months, 2 weeks ago
For a lot of my music listening, I am definitely an analog technology aficionado. Analog tape, or even a great turntable with a tonearm and moving coil cartridge are superior to pretty much any digital reproduction technology.
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jordan119 months, 2 weeks ago
. In the digital age the inevitable demise of analog technology is certain>>>>
I think they just keep changing things so we'll have to buy new equipment. It's wasteful, and expensive. When my cars emergency call system changed from analog to digital, it cost me $1500 for the switchover. If I didn't switch, I wouldn't have the emergency access I'd already paid for. I'm getting tired of being ripped off by these 'advances.'
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NSurround9 months, 2 weeks ago
A very decent multi format player that plays SACD's and DVD-audio and much more is the OPPO DV-980H DVD player. You can look it over here: http://www.oppodigital.com/
They sell direct and are probably the best players for the money bar none. A really decent company.
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AntiNeoCon9 months, 2 weeks ago
Well to be honest, having worked around airports most of my life and loosing some of my high frequency hearing, it all sounds basically the same to me. :( My wife is the one with the music major, I will pass the story onto her. Thanks Man.
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 2 weeks ago
As nccneon pointed out about the razorblade and tape. Yes Editing digital is far superior. I guess I like some analog in the chain. Though I know some would disagree most cd's that I really think sound good are AAD. ADD too. DDD to me only works for "industrial" music and such. (Things that are meant to sound harsh).
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stephen-johnson9 months, 2 weeks ago
Unfortunately, the music industry has been reduced to an iPod. The 15-24 YO purchaser of music - the prime demographic in the market - shows no interest in music quality better than an MP3. Music retailers like Tower Records have gone belly up, and even car stereos have begun phasing out CD players.
The home theater market is a better venue for advances in recorded music than record companies.
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nccneon9 months, 2 weeks ago
"and even car stereos have begun phasing out CD players."
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OK, tell me it isn't true, please. I'm in the market for a new car in 2008. What is the replacement?
Truthfully, mp3 is capable of greater fidelity than most stock systems can reproduce.
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stephen-johnson9 months, 2 weeks ago
I misspoke - automakers haven't actually started phasing CD players out, but they are planning to.
The original article is no longer available for free, but the following blog link references it:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/06/auto...
"Just like 8-track and cassette players, CD players in new cars may be heading towards that great big option list in the sky.
A vice president from Siemens VDO automotive electronics supplier says advances in digital music, cell phones and the growing demand for portable devices could have CD players disappearing in most vehicles by 2012, according to an article from The Detroit News. Deleting the CD player would give automakers more room in center consoles to offer advanced multimedia options and other features."
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GWHayduke9 months, 2 weeks ago
Thats the primary beauty of digital, accessability.
I went to a Wilco show last weekend and the following day I went to a bittorrent site and had the show downloaded in its entirety only hours afterward. They quality was surprisingly good.
I store all of my audio files on my IPOD for accessability, travel and convenience.
Sure my albums sound much better, but that is an obsolete medium that is useful (to me) only a fraction of the time.
I am willing to compromise the quality of the sound for the convenience and accessability of digital audio.
Besides, my hearing is damaged enough now that I probably could not distinguish the difference between the two sources.
Bob Dylan recently claimed that "modern (digital)recordings sound atrocious" and should be available for free download because "they aint worth nothing anyway."
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stephen-johnson9 months, 2 weeks ago
"Thats the primary beauty of digital, accessability."
The same is true for digital photography. Most people will gladly trade quality for convenience if the convenient product meets their needs.
I never felt deprived in the days before widespread cell phone usage, but it's hard to imagine life now without one.
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cantfoolme9 months, 2 weeks ago
Lot of technical stuff here which is way over my poor old mushy head. I am told by many people that analogue is superior. I can understand that but you have to ask "how much better?". If you could play an analogue track followed immediately by the same track in digital how much less pleasure would you get from the latter? If it is a huge difference then i bow to analogue but i suspect not unless your hearing is so remarkebly acute (which is not the case with most people).
Here is my personal experience on Vinyl.
Despite dedicated loving care of record and equipment i would still get annoying crackles (my biggest gripe).
Storage is a problem and if not done correctly the records warp.
Unless you spend a bomb on equipment you get wow and flutter and you can actually wear out the grooves with faulty needles and cartridges.
You cannot skip rubbish tracks with ease.
You cannot play it in your car (the most important place to listen to).
So is it really worth it?
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cantfoolme9 months, 2 weeks ago
Scismatist i know the car is not a good place for acoustics but it is the only place i can sing along (assuming no passengers) without offending some poor soul. Mind you i always feel a bit foolish when stopping at the lights with the windows up and mouthing the words. I always try to bluff that i am really on hands free.
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Truzseeker9 months, 2 weeks ago
The final stage is still analog. Its the digital front end that makes it superior through digital conversion/compression removing a majority of the noise from the audio.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
I re-found this old article from IEEE. It's written in "layman-ish" so it's pretty easy to get a grip on.
Explains the differenes between tubes and what you can buy today.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/1640
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 2 weeks ago
Nice link. There is still an elusive quality to glass audio.
valves-tubes still in my judgment deliver an ethereal sound that even the most sophisticated solid state and digital preamps can't mimic at all. Even though we know what those qualities are, know the frequencies that various tubes create even ordered harmonic irregularities when pushed. I have used devices that sound great in their own way that "model" the behavior of tubes amazingly accurately yet the "warmth" one hears from tubes remains elusive. It seems the qualities referred to in the link are mostly the overdriven sonic signatures of tubes that guitarists love. Most recording engineers love tube preamps and channel strips as well and these devices are not usually pushed into overdrive at all unless it's as a creative effect. (Beatles "O Bla Di"
comes to mind, the distortion was created by cascading" in the red" channel strips on the venerable Neve mixing board.)
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JAG1239 months, 2 weeks ago
I have always believed that the industry should have waited at least another decade before it introduced digital music to the masses.
The CD standard of 44.1khz/16 bits was chosen due to the technical limitations of
